96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

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jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:35 am

Morning All,

Well I seem to have fixed the previous fault code (P0335) pointing towards the crank sensor, replaced that with a genuine part. However now I have some gearbox faults and engine faults. Gearbox I think is low on fluid (small leak from o/p shaft seal and I only topped it up a few years ago and know how sensitive it is to the level.

But now I also get P1367 & 1368 and the engine stalls. I usually get the "Engine Fault" pop up on the dash before it stalls/cuts out, and so far most of the time it re-starts immediately or after a few mins.

Any ideas? I've seen info on relays to check and ignition modules, however "checking" relays personally I'd rather replace with new if I can if it's the contactors inside that are breaking down etc.

The car recently had a new battery and is 4-year warranted and should hold up, however it did have some work done at a bodyshop in which it may have been started and moved only short distances over a 2-3 week period so it might need a little boost.
Last edited by jwpalfrey on Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Astromorg
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:52 pm
Location: Portsmouth/Southampton

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling

Postby Astromorg » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:19 pm

P1367 is applicable to Ignition Module No 1 and P1368 is for IM No 2. It would be quite a coincidence for both modules to fail together, so checking the electrical diagrams for a common point immediately puts the Ignition Coil Relay under suspicion. That relay is in the engine compartment, in the nearside bulkhead box. Remove the main cover and there should be three relays mounted at the front of the box, under their own plastic cover that just pulls up and off. The IM Relay is the nearest to the centre of the car.

EIther change it for a new one, or swap it with the A/C clutch relay to see if that fixes it. That relay is the only brown one of the three mounted on the side of the enclosure.

If the relay is OK and the problem persists, next up the line are fuses that don't usually cause intermittent problems and one of them supplies other items as well that you'd probably notice giving problems , but at this point it's always worth checking for looseness or corrosion! Fuse 18, 10A and Fuse 14, 10A, both in the EM Fuse box in the same bulkhead enclosure as the relays.

There are no common ground/earth points directly involved, so nothing to check there.

I'm not sure from your post how much of the above you'd already gathered, but come back if there's more lines of enquiry needed or if the problem's resolved.

Later Edit: Should have mentioned to check the wiring for damage, such as a chafed wire occasionally grounding.
2005 XK8 4.2-S Coupe
2005 X type 2.5 SE Auto

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:30 am

Thankyou Astromorg,

So, some progress, I swapped over the relays, and P1367/8 have not re-appeared. So that could be one source and for £10 for the relay I may change the critical ones given they are 23 odd years old now.

however it seems my car clears it's fault codes upon every ignition re-start which makes it a little tricky with intermittent faults, however I keep the code reader to hand to check them when they pop up.

So the stalling issue is still there, The car starts fine when cold - no issues at all. However it seems when it starts to get warm is when it's more prone to stalling. I got to the end of my road and it stalled, re-started and almost immediately stalled again, it did this a few times until I applied some throttle and got her above tickover. She then did drive but erratically would cut-out for a second, really annoying if stationary or at a junction, when moving the transmission kept it running until it fired back up. I got to my destination (lockup some 2-3 miles) and the car now at temp seems to run fine with no stalling.

I now have P0335 fault code returned pointing towards a crankshaft sensor issue, however that was the code I got the first time which led to me replacing the crankshaft sensor in the first place.

I've done a little reading and someone had a camshaft sensor issue which masked it'self by throwing the crank sensor out and thus the ECU saw a crank sensing issue not a crankshaft sensing issue.

I'm determined to chase this issue through, I have access to jaguar workshop manual, but unfortunately not an IDS diagnostic unit, just a cheap code reader.

Needless to say I'm still puzzled what the issue could be.

Coolant temp sensor?
Camshaft sensor? Which one?
ECU faulty - capacitors broken down?
Faulty harness?

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:50 pm

Ok, so the weirdest thing car still cuts out intermittently. In addition the Rev counter and coolant temp gauge both drop to zero and when I attempted a restart still didn’t move. In addition the climate unit beeped and “Er” appears on the display for a few seconds. So I did a hard reset which so far has cleared all these issues, although I didn’t get time to take the car for a proper run to see if anything comes back. Thoughts anyone?

mike020150
Posts: 2299
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:26 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby mike020150 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:02 am

These issues are typical of low battery condition. As a minimum, if you haven't given yours a full recharge yet, it would be sensible to start there. Mike.
2014 XK Dynamic R convertible; 1977 Daimler Double Six Coupe; XE S

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:34 am

Thanks, I will try that, although the battery was only replaced a few weeks ago (Bosch S4) so is well within warranty. But I'll whip it out and give it a good charge as it has some work done in a bodyshop and was with them for 3 weeks prior to these issues.

I will add that the battery has had no issues starting the car, the alternator is charging and holding @ 13 volts. And the engine stalling and fault codes all pop up well after the engine is running, easily a good 5 mins or so in to a drive.

However I know these cars are sensitive to battery voltage, does anyone know where the main grounds are so I can check and clean them up? I can see the main ground for the battery in the boot.

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:53 am

I also must admit, since ownership my car has been a weekend occasional use car sat in a lock-up, as such it can be left for weeks at a time and I've always disconnected the battery when I've left it to avoid it discharging. Only since fitting the new battery I've not been doing this, perhaps the battery is not quite up to charge and I've not been able to do more than a 20min run in it since it's been fitted.

Astromorg
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:52 pm
Location: Portsmouth/Southampton

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby Astromorg » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:01 pm

As Mike says, start with getting the battery on top form. Time spent pursuing faults while the battery is suspect, is seldom time spent well! :x
2005 XK8 4.2-S Coupe
2005 X type 2.5 SE Auto

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:34 pm

So, an update:
Battery charged (12.74V) re-fitted with ground point now secure, drove the car 2 miles and towards the end of the journey some missing, engine fault popped up, then gearbox fault and defaulted to 4th gear then stability control fail. However the engine did not stall. P0335 logged on engine ECU.

So I then checked the ECU & TCU connections, firstoff the outboard anti-tamper screw on the housing was missing and the lower part of the housing was not aligned so water ingress could happen (in addition 23 year old seals are not as effective).

Secondly the TCU was not seated correctly and the foam blocks were loose so I re-secured them and checked the multi plugs and re-seated them on the ECU & TCU.

One oddity was the TCU multiplug had a beige grease all over the pins and the connector, so someone had clearly been here before. I'm assuming this is some sort of contact grease. Is this normal or has someone applied this aftermarket?

Anyway re-fitted everything and took her for a drive, low and behold no issues, I even took her for an extended drive up to some speed and got her properly hot but no issues cropped up.

So I'll give her a proper run to work tomorrow to see if anything happens (I don't want to count my chickens) however currently it seems to be an ECU connection, so should I apply some contact cleaner and/or contact grease to the ECU connectors aswell? This is assuming that that is where the issue has been?

Astromorg
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:52 pm
Location: Portsmouth/Southampton

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby Astromorg » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:50 pm

Hope you're feeling good having made such encouraging progress!

There seem to be as many opinions of the use of 'electrical greases' in connectors as there are on which are the best tyres or oil! Here's a link to an interesting article on the subject

https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_ ... grease.htm

I've never found any 'greased' connectors in either of my two Jaguars and personally I would not normally apply any. I sometimes clean out any suspect connector with contact cleaner spray then connect/disconnect/re-connect a few times to polish up the pins. Make sure any connector securing arrangement is working and obviously you'll replace the screw to hold the ECU connector and maybe the seal if possible?

Fingers crossed your troubles are over!
2005 XK8 4.2-S Coupe
2005 X type 2.5 SE Auto

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:48 am

So the woes continue, however in different orders.

So I've just done a 28 mile run to work (A & B roads as I didn't want to risk breakdown on motorway). The engine misfired about 3 mins in to the journey and P0335 got logged. This stayed until I coasted down a long hill to a set of lights and it cut-out on me in the middle of the junction! Great! She took a couple of attempts to re-start, simply felt like the engine wasn't catching, I assume the spark was being intermittently cut in and out, 3 attempt she started and promptly in to drive with some right foot to get out of the junction! The remaining 10 miles or so, no issues until I descend another long hill at which point "stab control fail" and Gearbox fault occurs, in to 4th gear. Fault code P1797 logged, and both the rev counter and coolant temp gauges drop to zero briefly at the same time, but then come back to life.
Drove for a while, nothing else, so I stopped the car to re-set the TCU (so I can get my gears back) then she won't re-start, just spins over. Tried twice...nothing, just cranks. I gave it 30 seconds or so and third time, she fires up!
No new codes logged at this point, however within 100yrds Gearbox fault, stability control fail and default to 4th gear. However no engine codes at this point. By this point I'm near work and so limp it in 4th in to the car park.

Question, could low gearbox fluid be causing the gearbox fault and the stability control fail? I've had low fluid before and usually I get a loss of gears and some erratic behaviour before the faults appear on the dash, I just can't remember if stability control fail is linked to it or not.

mike020150
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Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:26 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby mike020150 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:01 am

Realistically, with a car which has already been messed with, you need the car to be scanned by an experienced specialist with the Jaguar diagnostics or Autologic system to bottom the problem quickly. The alternative is to progressively replace each module/its wiring until you find the culprit (an expensive route!). That said, your car appears to be displaying the symptoms of a comms failure between engine and transmission modules and the most common XK8 failure point giving similar symptoms is the gearbox rotary switch. Due to its position under the car, the switch collects road dirt etc. Hence, whilst you are checking the gearbox oil level (ensure you follow the correct checking process) you might want to examine, clean and/or replace the switch before going much further. Mike.
2014 XK Dynamic R convertible; 1977 Daimler Double Six Coupe; XE S

jwpalfrey
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby jwpalfrey » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Thanks Mike, yes I was definitely thinking this needs to be looked at with the correct diagnostics software and a more experienced hand than mine. I am an automotive engineer but this is not my area of expertise, I'm far more mechanically & design based. I may just have to bite the bullet on this one. Although I'd like to be able to reliably replicate the faults before I send it in to try and help pin point the exact faults and symptoms.

Astromorg
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:52 pm
Location: Portsmouth/Southampton

Re: 96 XK8 P1367 & P1368 Fault Codes & Engine Stalling - Now P0335

Postby Astromorg » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:38 pm

Those problems could all be explained by a loose/bad connector at the ECU and (but not 'or') the TCM

The crankshaft position sensor's two wires go directly from the sensor to the ECU through that connector (And it's a new sensor, so that should be OK.) but a poor connection would give P0335.

DTC P1797 is, at its simplest, an indicator of a fault in the continuity of the CAN wiring between the ECU and the transmission module and of course those two wires use the TCM and ECU connectors.

While no DTC seems to have occured for the stability control message, that could just be because your scanner is too basic, however, the ABS module is also on the CAN system and would be affected by breakdown of the CAN circuit.

I think your earlier success with re-making those connectors is a good indicator of the path to follow. A thorough clean, removal of old grease and a positive (even if temporary) securing arrangement for the ECU and TCM connectors has to be established before it's even worth paying out for a higher grade scan.

If you were in the Portsmouth/Southampon area my Jaguar enabled AutoEnginuity scanner and sensor monitor might get somewhere further down the line?
2005 XK8 4.2-S Coupe
2005 X type 2.5 SE Auto


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