Replacement Aircon system

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Jagdcat
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:14 pm

Replacement Aircon system

Postby Jagdcat » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:11 pm

Hi All,

This is purely blue sky thinking but, given the issues that appear quite regularly with the aircon, i am wondering if anyone has ever considered/completed replacing it with another make such as Eberspacher?

I have no idea if this is even an engineering possibility but would interested in your views?

JC

PaulE
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Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 3:39 pm

Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby PaulE » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:23 pm

That's a thought I have expressed several times when sweltering with a duff system, but the fact is that when the XJS system is working properly it is not half bad. I have enjoyed four trips to France after having it 'seen to' and it has been fine
. My wife is not slow in complaining about aircon being warm when it should be cold (and bathwater being cold when it should be warm), and not a peep after a warm week in our coupe.
However our SAAB 9-5 Aero now 11 years old and with almost 100,000 miles has only been recharged once in all that time, then only as a check revealing that the gas was only 5% down, will outperform the Jaguar aircon any day, and I often wish it could be transferred into the XJS.
It would be nice if we have anyone who fully understands the Jaguar system who could suggest any positive improvements to make it more reliable.
1994 Coupe AJ6 engine

Jagdcat
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:14 pm

Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby Jagdcat » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:33 pm

I'm due with David Marks next Mon/Tues. I will pose the question on fitting a new entire system then as it seems a potentially cheaper proposition to labouring with an unreliable old unit.

PaulE
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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby PaulE » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:53 pm

He should know what is possible and what if anything can be done with the existing XJS system.Mine is a 1993 with 134a gas.
Was this topic mentioned at the recent XJS seminar do you know?
Please report back what you find out. If anything can be done to re-engineer the system there is a good business in it for somebody. I have been told several times that the main problem with it is old age.
1994 Coupe AJ6 engine

davidr

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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby davidr » Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:43 am

The only problem I've had with my Celebration is that not all of the parts are available any more. In particular, I've been unable to source the pipe that goes from the receiver drier to the expansion valve. On the later cars this is a mixture of alloy pipe and hose with a boss for the pressure switch. The quality of the alloy used by Jaguar was crap and it has corroded in too many places to mend and won't hold gas.
The pipe for the earlier cars without the pressure switch is still available so I bought one of those and made up a boss for the pressure switch to be welded in to the new pipe. Only problem is that the pipe is very thin and extremely tricky to weld. Haven't found anyone yet capable of doing this without drawing the pipe out too thin. David Marks suggest getting a hose made up by Pirtek but I haven't got round to looking into this yet.
Aircon issues were discussed at the xjs seminar. General view was that later Delenaire MK3 systems designed for 134a gas and with the sanden compressor are both effective and reasonably reliable. I'm not sure it's worth the effort and expense trying to put another system in. Maybe a better case for updating an older Delanaire Mk2 system designed to run on the now unobtainable R12 gas. Again, David Marks wasn't talking about changing systems. His recommendation appeared to be to stick with it (most things are fixable) and use the "drop in" R49 gas as converting to 134a is complex, expensive and unnecessary (complexity mostly comes from need to completely remove all the old oil and change o rings etc due to incompatibility of the two types of lubricants).
Regards
David
XJS FORUM COORDINATOR
1996 XJS Celebration Conv. (shown on the JEC stand at NEC Nov 2015)
2001 XKR Convertible

Previously enjoyed!
1989 XJ-S V12 Coupe. 2006 XJ TDVi Sovereign. 1995 XJ6 3.2. 2013 XF 2.2d. 2009 X Type 2.0d Sovereign estate

PaulE
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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby PaulE » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Spring again and our thoughts turn not to love but to getting the bloody aircon working . The gas which was put in last Sept seems to have disappeared so it's back again for another refill and check over. The car was without gas when I got it 12 years ago and despite numerous attempts by numerous experts since, seems to be just the same again.
It is time that a serious effort was made to analyze just what is wrong with the XJS system which produces this unreliability and to try to re-engineer it to get the bugs out of it . All the ones I have come across suffer the same and owners just seem to accept that this state of affairs goes with the car, but why should it?
The basic design seems well up to scratch and was 'improved' as a feature of the 1994 model, so I wonder if it could be made to work reliably for longer? We must have an engineer who can find out what the problems are - a job for the XJS Forum perhaps? - so can I please ask anyone with any ideas to contribute towards removing the worst nuisance we have to endure and recording the answers for later owners and to improve our cars permanently.
I have never used Sealant in my system but am considering it this time in desperation- any views?
1994 Coupe AJ6 engine

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piman

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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby piman » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:55 pm

Hello Paul,

from what I have read, if the system is not used regularly, which includes the winter, the seals dry out and the gas is lost. I presume this is the compressor seals as I don't know of any others so perhaps replacing the seals in the compressor before gassing?

Alec
Mk 2 3.8 (long term restoration), MK1 Triumph 2.5 P.I.,2.5 X Type Estate, 564 Hymer Motorhome

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poprivet

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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby poprivet » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:23 pm

Most xjs a/c answers (and questions) here:

http://www.kwecars.com/technical/jaguar ... S5l8vA02yU
1988 3.6 XJ-S coupe
'Remember that the value of your investment can plummet as well as fall'

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dhdove
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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby dhdove » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:08 pm

Excellent link Pop. One of the best go to Q and A's I've seen on XJS aircon. It seems so long ago that we visited KWE.

There are many, many, many potential faults and snags on the system and replacing one duff part is no guarantee of success. Many if not most systems will have multiple faults from long owner neglect. Moreover you need a very knowledgable specialist to ensure an end result.
I know from experience. I spent well over a thousand pounds getting ice cold air from my 89 3.6 coupe and that must have been twelve years ago. Still a lot cheaper than trying to re engineer another system to fit.

The XJS aircon system is absolutely fine when it is all working perfectly but you must be prepared and willing to pay the price to make it so.
TonyS
XJS Bulletin Board Moderator
2013 Mercedes Benz SLK55 AMG, 420bhp. Plenty for me, thank you.

PaulE
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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby PaulE » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:21 pm

Tony,
Would it be possible for you to record what you had done to the aircon for the benefit of other sufferers. What I had in mind was a section of the BB which contained details of what goes wrong, how to find it, and how to get it fixed. I have had twelve years of trying and am no nearer a permanent 'fix' than I was then. I agree that the system is 'fine' when working properly, but having water sloshing over the feet of one's beloved does not create enthusiasm for the car. If you look on 'Jagbits' site it is still happening to '08 and '09 cars in hotter places like Texas and Jaguar are throwing money at users in compensation. These niggling problems do enormous damage to their reputation and I personally know people who are running Lexus now just because of their experience with Jaguar in the past.
Is there a way of improving the condensate drains? Larger bore perhaps? Must be possible. My 13 year old SAAB is still cooling us and no water -cooled feet, so why not Jaguar?
1994 Coupe AJ6 engine

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poprivet

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Re: Replacement Aircon system

Postby poprivet » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:42 pm

Is there a way of improving the condensate drains?
I did provide a link to the advice given by KWE, have you actually cleared the blocked drains?
1988 3.6 XJ-S coupe
'Remember that the value of your investment can plummet as well as fall'


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