Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

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jagmanuk
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby jagmanuk » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:39 pm

Drivers door window lowered but would not come back up, found to be a terminal on the motor had rotted through and become detached. Good working second hand motor obtained and fitted. The two wires from the new motor re-attached to the loom wires but the motor will not budge. If I connect one of the motor wires to earth it will work in one direction only using the switch, swapping the other wire to earth makes the motor work in the opposite direction. Suspected the switch is the problem so swapped all the connections on the drivers switch with the passenger switch made no difference (the passenger window works ok from either switch when connected). Currently stripping the passenger door to see what wires go where, to see if it is different to just connecting two wires from the motor into the two same coloured wires in the loom. Is there anything else I should be looking into? I am thinking of running two wires from the passenger motor connector direct to the drivers door motor and seeing if operating the passenger side switch works. If it doesn't what is next and if it does what is wrong? :o I find it is difficult to describe the problem and what has been done, but I can expand further if it is needed. I normally take photo's before starting this kind of work but on this occasion as it looked straightforward didn't.

mike020150

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Posts: 2353
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:26 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby mike020150 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:10 am

It sounds like you may not have connected the black earth wire from the window motor. There are 3 wires altogether. I believe the other two power wires (one for up and one for down) are slate/brown and slate/blue. Mike.
2014 XK Dynamic R convertible; 1977 Daimler Double Six Coupe; XE S

jagmanuk
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby jagmanuk » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:08 pm

Thanks for your reply Mike but there are only two wires on the motor. I know some of the models had three wires but mine appears to only have the two. I believe the earthing is done through the switch, I.e. When the switch is lifted the power goes down one lead then back to the switch by the other where some trickery happens to connect to earth. When the switch is lowered the exact opposite happens, so each wire has power OR earth depending on switch position. I have not yet tried connecting the two wires from the passenger side loom to the drivers motor and vice versa to see if the motor(s) both then work or if the problem swaps to the passenger side.
I will bear your comment in mind though when I have another go at it, which will probably be tomorrow.
I agree with your colour coding but it is difficult to see what is happening when you look at the Haynes manual.
Cheers and thanks for your help

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RichardSEL
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 6:29 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby RichardSEL » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:30 am

I changed the LH window winder motor also for a series 1
I hadn't seen the old removed one so don't know how far the corrosion had reached -- whether the moisture (car had been stood underneath a tree in someone's back garden for many years) had travelled past the motor's terminal peg insulation into the motor itself or not.

<later> seems I've only got the p/n for LH door window winder motor as the leccy bought, so search 210338. The number's stamped on the casing. I paid £45 as p/x though :arrow:
Gone: '59 Mark I, '56 Mark VIIM, '59 Mark IX, '01 XJ8 Sovereign 4L LWB, '01 XJ8 Sport 3.2L, '01 XJ8 Exec 3.2L
Current: '03 Strange Rover L322
In trim shop for total refurb: '73 Owen Sedanca 4.2L
Stalled in storage '61 Mark IX with 4.2L

jagmanuk
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby jagmanuk » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:12 pm

Thanks for the information Richard, I have picked up a couple of motors from fellow region members, they all work when connected to power and earth, it's just when I changed the drivers door one the motor does not operate from the switch. The only difference between the original motor and the donated ones is the shape of the body, the original is rectangular where the donated ones are round, I don't see this as making any difference (unless you know otherwise?)
I read somewhere the series one cars motors have three wires but although mine is a series one it was one of the last made and I suspect it had the series two motors which (according to the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual) has only two wires. I will bear your thoughts in mind and if the trial of connecting the passenger side wiring to the drivers side motor doesn't work I will try changing the motors over to prove if it makes any difference.
Cheers Mike

jagmanuk
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby jagmanuk » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:27 am

Well no matter what I tried I could not get the round motor to work, I checked the wiring against the passenger door motor and it was identical. So my conclusions are as follows.
The series one motors are rectangular whilst the series two are round.
The operating switches are somehow matched to the motor so are not interchangeable. (You cannot fit the series two switch in place of the series one switch)

I have managed to repair my original motors (I found on removal of the passenger one the connection lug was very frail) in both cases one off the steel lugs coming out of the motor had rusted away, I drilled a small hole (2.5mm) touching the lug into the nylon block it comes from (not too deep) and screwed in self tapping screw, this making contact with the lug, soldered on the ent of the screw is a wire wrapped with insulation. I then checked the motor works both ways several times and filled the nylon cup with arialdrite.

My backstop was if it didn't work I would have to take the end plate off the motor and find a way of connecting a wire through it.

I looked around on the Internet and found new motors in the USA at £220 each plus delivery

So for now problem fixed.

jagmanuk
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby jagmanuk » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:43 pm

OK so it seemed like a good idea at the time but ........
Having put the window motor and regulator back in the door a quick test and it worked ok. I then demonstrated to the neighbours and yes it went down ok but would not go up again! Doh. There was no alternative but to strip it all off again only to find it would now still not work again. My pal had a look and we tweaked the self tap screw and lo it worked again. We surmised it must only just be making contact and when the power was applied the connection was so weak it failed after some usage. Obviously unreliable. So we cut back part of the motor and nylon block, where the contact had rusted, enough to clean up the contact and solder the wire on. - success, having put it all back in place a week ago and operating the window at least once a day it now works, so I am claiming success and putting on the door card (with a new hardboard backing) back in place.

mike020150

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Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:26 pm

Re: Inoperative electric window - Ser 1 XJ6

Postby mike020150 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:16 am

Aren't old cars such fun? :D Mike.
2014 XK Dynamic R convertible; 1977 Daimler Double Six Coupe; XE S


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