Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

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Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:35 pm

I`ve just booked a Terraclean for the XJR this coming Friday. It can`t do any harm and there might be some small gain. As the car is still at a reasonably low mileage and lowish levels of carbon only should be present, I thought it might be prudent to attempt to remove what is now in low volume, rather than to wait until the engine was chock full of the stuff. Overly hopeful and optimistic or what? Probably.

The MOT last February showed HC at just 4ppm. An MOT pass is 200ppm so no issues there. Both 200 sports catalytic converters and the EGR valve are new having been fitted only a couple of months ago. That could be enough to zero the car on HC as I indeed managed with my old V8 S-type. Regular dosing with fuel injector cleaner since I bought the XJR last September has been applied. The throttle body has been cleared of crank case breather gunk and the throttle body throat and plate also cleaned to new pin standard. I still have to change the fuel filter which I`ll attempt to do this Thursday. What comes out of an old fuel filter when changed defies belief. Seriously foul in most cases. That means a fight with the nearside under-tray fastenings. The spirit is willing but the body is not quite so enthusiastic! Down on me hands and knees once again. I`m too old for this caper but it must be done. I`ve had the filter for months.

Results will be interesting if not spectacular given that cats and EGR valve are new. The fuel system to my knowledge has not been touched in twelve years and 83k miles use. The injector condition is unknown at present. A clean might be productive...may be..perhaps.

Almost certainly inlet valves, piston crowns, exhaust valves and exhaust headers are likely to have a carbon build up present. Being supercharged, the car has fully synthetic oil as specified by Jaguar and has a slight advantage in that it is good at ensuring that burnt carbon particulate is easily absorbed by the oil which is less prone to oil heat bake deposits than mineral or semi-synthetic oils. I`m hoping that will have helped carbon build up to have been minimal. With luck there will not be much that the cleaning process has to remove but who knows? The sadness is that it will be impossible to tell just how much carbon is currently present, how much is removed and how much remains after the process.

The guy coming to do the job tells me I should notice some small performance improvement and a slight fuel consumption drop.... Mnnnn. We will see. Before and after readings will be interesting.

The Wheeler Dealer episode with the rather poorly maintained XK8 that was Terracleaned showed an improvement after cleaning. That car was kicking out something like 570ppm HC which was an MOT fail. The cleaning process reduced the HC output to around 70ppm. There can be little doubt that the cleaning process does work and the idea is not snake oil. One wonders if another cleaning session would have made further drops down to the zero level which I achieved with the old V8 S-type. Power units in both cases were very similar.

Talking to my local Regional members, some are resistive to anything that is new that they don`t fully understand. Asking forty odd members who would be interested in having their cars Terracleaned, just four people responded positively to the suggestion. That is human nature, I suppose.

Images and more information once my car has been cleaned.

Further discussion, please, Gents.

Mike
X350 Co-ordinator

2004 XJR

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby PaulGover » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:26 pm

One view: it sounds to me like smoke (or rather not smoke) and mirrors. The bit that makes me suspicious is the "highly refined fuel" or whatever that is supposed to cause the soot to burn off. The expensive stuff from Shell is almost certainly highly refined, and has extra detergent to remove oily muck, so a couple of tank-fulls of that should do the same, indeed more, as I think their process only uses a few litres.

An alternative might be the "Italian tune up" beloved of XJS V12 owners: a burst of sustained high revs in a low gear; personally I'm too scared of breaking something to try it seriously. (I use a blast at full throttle up a steep hill; it certainly produces black smoke from the exhaust, but I think it's the crank case breather carrying engine oil to the inlet - I get a measurable drop in sump level after trying it!)

My guess (and the following is all guesswork) is they burn off the soot (if they actually do, that is) by raising the combustion chamber temperature and increasing the relative oxygen content. That sounds to me like either an oxidising agent in the fuel (making it an even more dangerous explosive!), which runs counter to the high purity claim, or rather more likely, intentionally running with a seriously weak mixture, or maybe a combination of both. Which is fine as long as they don't melt a hole in the pistons.

What would be nice is before and after pictures of the inside of the cylinder heads; I don't know if a bore scope can get the right angle to do that (I bought one from Maplin for entirely different uses, and haven't ever tried it for its intended use!).
1981 XJ6 Series III - strictly XJ6O2 - dissolving in the rain
1986 XJ6 Sovereign Series III
1991 XJS V12 "facelift"
2008 XJ TDVi

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby andypryce » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:52 pm

I am not convinced of the value I must admit, using 98 Ron fuel with detergent I suspect is equally effective, mine just topped 180,000 miles last week and has never had a terraclean as far as I know, but let us know how it goes Mike.
andy

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J44EAG

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:58 pm

MOT certificate paperwork shows the current emissions that your car is producing. HC production is what gets everyone in a panic.

I`ll dig my papers out and have a good look at where my car was before at the last MOT with the original cats fitted. My Terraclean on Friday will include before and after figures with the new cats and EGR valve fitted. The three sets of figures seen together should be quite interesting.

Mike
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2004 XJR

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Cossington
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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby Cossington » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:18 pm

I'm looking forward to your results.
It is a process I haven't tried, but often think I should if I buy an older (well, higher mileage) car.

Best,

David
Current Jaguars-
2003 XJ X350 (4.2)
1983 XJ-S V12 HE with Manual gearbox conversion

Previous Jaguars and other notable cars-
1998 XK8
2003 S Type 2.7 Diesel, manual ('Hurray'; I love manuals)
2005 Maserati 4200
1998 TVR Chimaera 4.5
2005 Aston Martin DB9

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby PTR200Jag » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:25 am

I for one , will be interested in the results if they are verified with before and after figures / facts.

Mike you mentioned in posts last year, xk8 forum and s type forum, about Terraclean being " over egged" .....and expensive compared with your love for cataclean .....what changed your mind ?

Several thread discussions have talked about Terraclean but there seems to be no definitive results, apart from people saying on some forums " it works"

In your case, mike, you have already pulled your motor apart, at some expense, so it probably shouldn't do much good ???? But who knows !!

You mention your low hc at the last mot in February.... 004 in fact.

I have just had my xk8 mot..HC 002 and CO of 0.00 , yes that's ZERO !!
Only use redex as I have for years in all my petrol engined equipment.. does it really work?
No cataclean, terraclean snake oil etc just redex,, old hat you say but then again...?
XK8 MY2002

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:37 am

Initially, I was skeptical, I must admit. Then I started pulling the XJR apart and into individual parts. Each and every one has a function and to a greater or lesser degree has some impact on engine performance, emissions and economy.

Cataclean is really good stuff and many of us have used the product to excellent effect. It certainly cleaned out the 88k mile old cats on my old S-type. My MOT man was amazed. A drop from 80ppm to zero between MOT tests and apart from Cataclean being administered, nothing else had been done to the engine between tests.The XJR was also given a couple of Cataclean treatments between buying the car last September and the MOT test in February. 4ppm HC figured at that point with the original cats and EGR valve fitted. So the car is not a smog machine by any stretch of the imagination. In fact that level is regarded as being very clean indeed.

So the XJR now has new cats and an EGR valve. Those components have now covered a little over 700 miles since being recently fitted. HC levels should be at a very low level indeed, if not at zero as was achieved with the S-type. The pre-Terraclean test will confirm the current levels.

Whilst the charger was off the car, I also reworked the throttle body elbow. Typically it was filthy, with a sticky coating crank case breather residue being evident within the elbow. The lower throat of the throttle body and plate were in a similar condition and the IAT sensor in its trench to the rear of the elbow, was knees deep in sludge. That was cleared and the elbow internal ducting opened out, ported and polished to assist an increase in airflow. So that intake area is clear of substances that could impact negatively on emissions figures. Interestingly, the supercharger internal case and rotors were found to be spotlessly clean although having had the filthy throttle body elbow bolted to the case. The muck stopped at the gasket between the charger and the elbow. Interesting? One assumes that most crankcase oil vapour would be prevalent at lower rpm and that at low speed throttle conditions, the vapour becomes drawn through the by-pass tube and pressure operated actuator linked to a throttle plate located in the by-pass pipe. Oil vapour would appear not to be drawn through the charger rotors under such conditions and the charger therefore stays clean internally. Only when peering into the inter-cooler bricks does any sign of oil vapour sludging become evident again.

Essentially, any carbonisation now present within the engine will be confined to the cylinder heads, valves, piston crowns, piston rings, head outlet ports and the exhaust headers. That is what I would like to see removed and the Terraclean process is designed to do just that. In the past, we would have done the same job but removed the heads to manually de-coke the engine. No problem with a simple Ford cross-flow Kent engine which could have the job done in a morning, but a completely different situation with our V6 and V8 model Jaguars.

There are fuels which are vastly more pure than Super Plus common pump fuel. It just isn`t marketed to us on a commercial basis. It will almost certainly burn hotter and more efficiently than the fuels with which we are familiar. What the chemical composition of the Terraclean fuel is is unknown but likely to be a sophisticated concoction of chemicals we generally will never have used, seen or smelt, let alone being able to verbally pronounce the names of the chemical composition....Anyway, when the Terraclean man comes to call tomorrow, I`ll attempt to find out what is in his cleaner cans. I`m not sure what it will prove, but I`l ask him anyway. Emissions results are what interest me rather than what chemicals are used to make cleaning effective.

Mike
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2004 XJR

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby ptjs1 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:57 pm

Mike,

Like you I always want to understand how any additive or treatment works, its composition, reasoning behind the process etc. I understand the theory of Terraclean using a highly refined fuel to act as a detergent on the carbon by-products of combustion within the engine. My limited understanding is that the detergent capability of the solution is considerably way in excess of that in the premium fuels marketed by Shell etc.

I'm also heathily cynical of any product until I've seen it for myself. However, the few people that I know who have had their cars treated all report that they have seen benefits.

On the basis that the benefits seem to be lower emissions, improved fuel consumption and improved driveability, I'm not sure that your particular vehicle is the easiest car to see those benefits. The work that you have done has already significantly increased its driveability and low-speed pickup. With over 500bhp already, I wonder if you'll really feel a small improvement in driveability? As with many petrol x350s, you already have very low emissions. And, unlike, some of us figure-obsessed owners, you don't keep meticulous long-term records of fuel consumption. (I admit to being one of those people who has figures for every gallon of fuel consumed by my cars for over 20 years and over .5 million miles!)

So, although I do believe that your car will greatly benefit from the treatment, I think it might be difficult to draw conclusions just from the figures on your car. I know that you're arranging for other Portsmouth Region members to have their cars treated, so it would be really interesting to hear the collective feedback from all of you, perhaps after you've done a few tankfuls of fuel after the treatment.

Cheers

Paul
1995 XJS 4.0 Convertible
1980 XJ-S Pre-HE
Jaguar 4.2 Supercharged engine (but not with a Jaguar body..)

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:52 pm

Right, the XJR has been Terracleaned.

Mike, the local operator, was a great guy. He arrived here bang on time in his well kitted sign written van. Totally enthusiastic about his product and business which he says keeps him rushed off his feet. He explained that the process using the same gear that we have seen used by Ed China which causes the carbon which is positively charged to be attracted to the negatively charged cleaning fuel. Vaporization of the carbon is the result. The fuel injection gear cleaner is a high aromatic fluid whereas the combustion chamber cleaner is, er,.....something else...... the name of which I fail to remember!

Sadly the arrangement for before and after emissions figures to be taken at a local garage went to rats. I`ll have to get the car tested locally hopefully next week. Interestingly a couple of minutes after the process began, Mike said to have a quick sniff of the exhaust gas. Just walking to the rear of the car was enough. A strong napthane type smell prevailed and Mike pronounced that carbon was indeed being vaporized. Five minutes later, Mike again said to have another sniff. Hardly scientific but Mike said this was his quick method of telling what was occurring during combustion cleaning. He went on to say that really clogged up cars can consume several cans of cleaner before the exhaust gas quality changes to one of no apparent smell. Most of us will know the smells of incomplete combustion and also intuitively know whether one is dealing with a smog producing engine or one that is in rather better order. Mike also said that an engine which after cleaning produced exhaust gas which did not smell, was totally safe to be run within a workshop with no fear that anyone within that shop would suffer from CO poisoning.

Mike connected his equipment into the fuel rail with an adapter which also sealed off the return line. We then pulled the fuel pump fuse F33, yellow, 20amp in the boot fuse box to isolate the fuel pump.

Two differing cans of the fluid discharge into the cleaning machine reservoirs, and the car was started and run at 2000rpm until the process was complete about a half hour later.

OK, verification still needs to be done using a exhaust gas tester but Mike said he was certain that the XJR would now have zero CO and HC readings when tested. I`m quite happy to go with him on that for the time being.

Driving, the car seems a little more spritely at low rpm. The first to second gear change is certainly faster and the pick up a tad more linear. Transferring down from over-run and back onto the throttle again feels improved. Above 1800rpm, little has changed. What do I think so far? Worth doing? Yes on both counts. I never expected a dramatic improvement as this car has new cats and an EGR valve so those components are gunk free and won`t be an issue as causing blockages, having poor catalytic response or any other issues. I now know injectors are as clean as they could ever be and the same with combustion chambers, piston crowns and other carbon holding up-stream components. Without physically dismantling the engine for physical cleaning, it is likely to be as clean as it ever can be. The best has been done for the car and I`m more than happy with the result. The invoice is now on the car history file and I can do no more to make this nice XJR any better as regards engine combustion emissions levels. I`m satisfied with the outcome.

LATER EDIT.
I`ve just been out along the wonderful top road overlooking Portsmouth Harbour for a quick breakfast. Always a nice outing in the morning to clear the brain fog. This was a good opportunity to try the car after the Terraclean session. I didn`t get the chance to run the car in traffic free conditions yesterday so an early morning run out today seemed a good idea. I`m most impressed. What I wrote earlier still stands but its just got better. Better in fact than I could imagine was possible. The car now has an spring in its footstep which I`ve not felt to date. Its hard to describe but the car has an enhanced natural pull.

If you are considering having your car Terracleaned, then I would say don`t hold back. It is worth every penny. The next time I buy a second hand car, it will be the first thing I`ll have done after doing a basic service. Yip, this process gets my Five Star recommendation.

Mike
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2004 XJR

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:37 pm

I`ve now written an article on the process as done on my car. No doubt it will appear in our magazine pages in due course.

Mike
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2004 XJR

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:25 am

The final pre-winter service has just been done to the XJR and compliments the Terraclean work carried out recently.

A new Fram fuel filter has been fitted together with an early 5k mile engine oil and filter change. The old fuel filter fitted to my car was of unknown age and mileage so it was a prudent move to replace it to avoid any potential issues which might have lead to fuel system blockages. The engine oil was changed before the normal service interval as it blackened quickly after the Terraclean treatment which must of released a fair amount of internal carbonisation. It seemed the right thing to do. I have a liking for K&N oil and air filters so I once again fitted a K&N 1014 unit.

The oil service cost around £33 in total. The K&N oil filter came for just a little over £8 via ebay, the fully synthetic oil came from Wilko at £22 and i added another litre from my running stock for about £3. Even on our large engined cars, servicing does not need to be overly expensive if you do it yourself. With the engine panel removed from the car (as mine is presently) it is about a quarter of an hours work.

I run a service log for my car which continually lists every action with date and mileage added every time I take a spanner to the car. I consider the log to be worth fr more than a just a non descriptive dealer stamp.

I continue to enjoy the new found improved running characteristics following the Terraclean treatment. It really has made the XJR feel like a new car. Worth absolutely every penny.

Mike.
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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:50 pm

And it just seems to get better and better.
20161006_094338.jpg
Up and back again to my parents place near Kenley via the A3/M25/A22 in the XJR which has become the great mile cruncher I always craved. Exceptionally smooth and quick, a very reasonable 29.6 mpg over 175 miles. Mother asked if I was going to sell it. Absolutely not. Apart from a Bentley GT, I can`t think of any car that could possibly replace it. Without any doubts, I would say buying one of these cars has been one of the best decisions I`ve ever made.

The Terraclean was another good decision. Its made the XJR frolic like Larry the Lamb. What a difference in all respects. Instant rejuvenation of a twelve year old car.

"No car on this earth, does everything so well as an XJR". jeremy Clarkson.

Mike
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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby Cossington » Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:23 pm

Mike,

Thanks for being a 'guinea pig' and for your detailed write up. I have been inspired and have booked my 1983 XJS in for a Terraclean procedure on Monday. I shall see how that goes and may well then book in my 4.2 X350, afterwards.

Best,

David
Current Jaguars-
2003 XJ X350 (4.2)
1983 XJ-S V12 HE with Manual gearbox conversion

Previous Jaguars and other notable cars-
1998 XK8
2003 S Type 2.7 Diesel, manual ('Hurray'; I love manuals)
2005 Maserati 4200
1998 TVR Chimaera 4.5
2005 Aston Martin DB9

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby ptjs1 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:54 pm

David,

Please do let us know in the XJS section of the BB how you get on with the Terraclean process. Can I suggest that you might want to check your oil colour before and after, and do an oil change immediately after. Anecdotal evidence is that the process can create a significant dirtying of the oil from the combustion byproducts.

Good luck

Paul
1995 XJS 4.0 Convertible
1980 XJ-S Pre-HE
Jaguar 4.2 Supercharged engine (but not with a Jaguar body..)

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Re: Terraclean process on 4.2 XJR.

Postby J44EAG » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:57 pm

Money very well spent in my opinion, David.

Suggest an oil drop after a Terraclean. Before the Terraclean, with the last oil change some 4.8K miles earlier, the oil was just beginning to go light brown. Fifty miles after the clean, the oil came out black! I`m not unhappy with that result. Gunk in suspension. That`s fine by me.

I`m sure you will notice a very great difference after a clean on both of your cars. I first noticed it as my car had the injector cleaner run through it. About five minutes into the process the engine note changed and it appeared to be running more easily with a skip in its footstep. I know the engine on mine so well that I reacted sharply when it occurred. Injectors freed off with nozzles spraying rather than acting as hose pipes? Who knows. What I do know is that this car drives completely differently and storms up and down the A3 with hugely increased gusto! Yes, I do take special care at the point Mike Hawthorn died.

The most obvious effect that came out of the clean was the immediate transformation in standing start throttle application. I`d been chasing that bogy for a year without too much success. One Terraclean session and the problem is gone.

If nothing else, this case study on my car should give us all much more confidence when it comes to finding an informed and unbiased result obtained by a JEC member in "real time". Cataclean is a damned fine product but Terraclean lifts keeping an engine in top condition to a much higher level. It has my Gold Medal product award with Cataclean getting a well deserved Silver.

Mike
X350 Co-ordinator

2004 XJR


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