fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

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johannes50
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:03 pm

fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby johannes50 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:44 pm

Anybody out there who has fitted a 5 speed?
I have an getrag fitted to my series 3 E-type and find that very nice.
But getrags might not be the right choice for my Mk2, specially as there is a shortage of spares for getrags. At present I have the original Moss box fitted. Has anybody any experience with a T5 5 speed box?

I am a JEC member since mid 90's, but have not been very active, except for a message on SU fitted to my Series 3 E-type.
My Mk2 can be seen during the Via Flaminia rally in 2009 in Italy, pictures are on the Via Flaminia website.

Looking forward to hear from any of you.

Johannes

Martec
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby Martec » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:44 pm

Hi,

No-one seems to be replying to this one, if you have a moss box then you must have an early car?

I have 1961 3.8 MkII and I replaced the box due to knackered synchromesh and had the option of a few 5 speed boxes or the later 4 speed full synchro box with overdrive. Not wishing to pay for the then extortionate price for the 5 speed box I got a locally rebuilt 4 speed full synchro and overdrive for £800 (13 years ago). I have been very happy with it as it allows smooth quick changes.

Sorry I have no experience of the 5 speed boxes on offer, but others on here have!

Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.

1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated

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piman
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby piman » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:26 pm

Hello Johannes,

does your present gearbox not have overdrive. Personally I prefer four speed and overdrive to a five speed gearbox as one change can be done with the flick of a switch.

Alec
Mk 2 3.8 (long term restoration), MK1 Triumph 2.5 P.I.,2.5 X Type Estate, 564 Hymer Motorhome

johannes50
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby johannes50 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:23 pm

Hi Brian, Alec,

Thanks for the comments.

My Moss box has an overdrive and the car is 1962.
The moss box is also very noicy and does not allow for fast shifting.
Double clutching is not my thing.

Must admit the 4 speed with overdrive might also be an option.
I had once a big healey that had an overdrive that worked on both 3rd and 4th gear that was extremely nice. Specially as you could trow the overdrive switch but it would only change down when you hit the trottle

But it would still be nice to hear from somebody who has fitted a modern 5 speed to a Mk2.

Thanks

Johannes

ecosselynx
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby ecosselynx » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:02 am

Hi

I have a Getrag 5-speed out of a Opel Monza (you would need the one without the bell housing) in my 3.4, now done around 40k miles in 14 years and works fine.
I have no experience of the T5, I believe they are a good box, but the cost is out of my budget. Another box you can look into is from the Toyota Supra.
As Alec said the simplest option is the later box if you can get one. While both the 5-speed Getrag and Toyota boxes are getting old there must be many newer boxes on the market which can be adapter, I'd be looking into that if I was doing it again rather than boxes which were built 20 odd years ago.
bye-o

John H.

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piman
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby piman » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:05 am

Hello all,

just an aside to this thread, but related, the unmistakeable whine of a Moss box in films that show a Jaguar (of that era) pulling off, e.g. Twiggy in her E Type in the Blues Brothers film.

Alec
Mk 2 3.8 (long term restoration), MK1 Triumph 2.5 P.I.,2.5 X Type Estate, 564 Hymer Motorhome

johannes50
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby johannes50 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:27 pm

:P He Guys,

Again thanks for the reply and yes the wine is very much part of the cars character.
I have kept it RH drive (no intention to change that), the old numper plate was WRS 427, it still got the brass sill plates from the jaguar dealer in Dundee. The chrome is all original, a bit worn down to the nickel, some pitting but to me all part of the cars charme, as is the Moss whine, but at times, specially after driving the e-type with it's very smooth box?

But I will follow the suggestion and start looking for the 4 speed all synchro, with overdrive.

Just bought me 3 new old stock doors!
The 123 ignition works fine but I think I need another setting at present I am on No 1 curve.

Enjoy the cars

Johannes

Martec
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby Martec » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:49 pm

Hi,

Don't be surprised if some doors don't fit or have large panel gaps, apparently there were 4 sizes of door and the nearest fit was used!!!!

If you have ever stripped the body shell for painting you would be amazed at the amount of lead loading at various point including the B/C post. Modern day NEW CAR quality control of parts didn't exist.

I was told by a restorer to repair my own doors as they had a better chance of fitting, approx 20% if that of the rear doors are original.

So when you come to fit the doors expect to run weld down the edge of door or to grind back and reweld, I did after taking the lead off.

Best wishes

Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.

1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated

johannes50
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby johannes50 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:28 pm

Hi Brian,

Yes I know, I had to do the same to an AH 3000, but did not weld straight to the door edge, but used brazing rods and welded those to the edge, than grind that to a good doorcap was achieved. Lots of work but end result fine.

Thnaks and enjoy motering the Jag

johannes

suarthardy
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby suarthardy » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:43 pm

Hi Johannes

I have the T5 gearbox kit from Watjag in my E-Type but I have yet to drive it for any distance as the car is still (yawn) in restoration. Its a well thought out kit though.

I have driven other cars with the T5 box (e.g. Sierra Cosworth) and the gear change is a crisp rifle bolt action, much better than my 911 change. So I had no hesitation in fitting one in my E-Type. Pricey, I know, but it is a brand new gearbox.

I understand that the Getrag boxes commonly used cannot be re-conditioned easily. Special equipment is required to dismantle them and even then it is a lottery as to whether the gearbox will be better than it was beforehand. Most Getrags sold as reconditioned probably aren't.

However, the Jaguar 4 speed all synchromesh gearbox is a very good gearbox too so one of them with an overdrive would be an excellent choice for a Mk2 as it would be less of a deviation from standard.

Regards
Stuart

1962 E-Type FHC
1969 420 Daimler Sovereign
1994 X300 XJR

Martec
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Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby Martec » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:59 pm

Hi Johannes,

Just got in from doing the local Mermaid rally in the Lincolnshire wolds in the MkII, most enjoyable as the car works so well and a good smooth gear change is a delight. If I still had a memory (I vaguely remember having one) I would have added the points below about the Jaguar all syncho box and overdrive. I replaced my moss box, no overdrive on it, for the later all synchro box WITH overdrive.

The recon box is a joy to use, only slight baulking in reverse.
The moss bell housing won't fit so it needs its own bellhousing.
The clutch release carrier is different on each box
In my case the propshaft was different as I previously had no overdrive, not sure in your case.
I also seem to remember having to faff about with the top gearbox mounting (possibly turn it around!!).

So you need the box, bellhousing, release bearing carrier and possibly the propshaft.

Also unlike the triumph boxes there is only over drive in 4th gear, this is good as you can change down from 5th to 3rd and back up just by moving the gear stick.

I initially had two problems with the new arrangement, first the overdrive failed, traced to a burnt switch ontop of the box to allow overdrive in 4th. A new switch and converted the switching via a relay so only low current in the switches.
Second again the overdrive failed, traced to a worn wire (wire tail on the overdrive solenoid), new wire soldered on and it has lasted 10 years so far.

Best wishes
Brian
MY2000 3ltr S type manual standard car with leather seats, cruise control and mistral blue metallic paint.

1961 3.8 MkII manual, Indigo blue, nolonger runs on LPG, everything else uprated

johannes50
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby johannes50 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:37 pm

Hi Brian/Stuart,

Much appreciated the information.
Watjag is well know as they are in the club mag.

If you buy something it is all about the follow up or the support you get from the supplier.
Over all the years I had some mixed results and that is why I can not make up my mind about which box.(e.g still have a leaking powersteering after buying a modern box from one of the suppliers in our own JEC mag.)

But I am getting there slowly (old brain, no overdrive)

At present the push for a new box is on hold as I have to find a storage place for the E-type first as my new (upgraded garage is not finished).
But just drove the E-type today and it is such a joy to drive with a modern gearbox.

I need to get something like that in the Mk2.

Many thanks for the information.

Johannes

ecosselynx
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Location: Magnou, France

Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby ecosselynx » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:18 pm

Hi

And what type of gear box do you have in the E-type, why not just get one of these if your happy with it!
bye-o

John H.

johannes50
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby johannes50 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:48 pm

Hi John,

I got a Getrag fitted to the E type and I am very happy with that box, but spare parts are becoming a problem.
A box with proper spare parts supply sound better to me.

Johannes

cullywoo
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 6:18 pm

Re: fitting a 5 speeds gearbox to my 3.4 Mk2

Postby cullywoo » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:52 am

Just spotted this discussion and seems I'm in a similar boat. So thought I might hijack. Got the opportunity to change gearbox, I have 68 jag but somewhere down line has older (64 I think) clunky no synchro box. Want to upgrade, but not sure where to 'go shopping'. Where have people gone for their gearboxes (ideally I'd like the synchromesh 4 spd and overdrive).?

A bit will depend on costs but I have no I idea how much it will be for either 5sp or 4spd mod options.


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